For anybody who wanted a refresher on The Jinx, the follow-up collection to the 2015 true-crime phenomenon that led to the arrest of Robert Durst did simply that with its first episode. Besides it delved deeper — a lot deeper — when it took the viewers behind the homicide case towards Durst to indicate how and why the investigation and Durst’s subsequent arrest lined up with the jaw-dropping last episode, which might air audio of Durst now-famously confessing from inside a rest room, “Killed all of them, after all.”
The Jinx launched as a six-part miniseries in February 2015. Durst was a New York actual property inheritor who had been suspected of three murders, however by no means convicted: his first spouse, Kathleen McCormack Durst, who disappeared in 1982; his shut good friend Susan Berman, who was shot useless execution-style in December 2000; and his neighbor Morris Black, whom he dismembered however was acquitted of murdering, claiming self-defense, in 2001. Director Andrew Jarecki — who Durst approached after seeing Jarecki’s movie All Good Issues, which was based mostly on Durst’s life — interviewed Durst for 21 hours for The Jinx.
The ultimate season one episode featured Jarecki confronting Durst with a smoking gun, when Durst couldn’t distinguish between his personal handwritten letter and the notorious cadaver word that was believed to have been despatched by Berman’s assassin. Durst, who was nonetheless mic’d, excused himself to the toilet, which is the place he would go on to say, “There it’s, you’re caught. … Killed all of them, after all.”
That piece of handwriting proof was first launched to the viewers within the fifth episode of season one and, as The Jinx — Half Two‘s first episode explains, Durst went on the run after he watched that episode air one week previous to the finale. He was in the end apprehended in New Orleans and was arrested the day earlier than his toilet confession was made public the following day. The Jinx grew to become an instantaneous true-crime unicorn: an HBO docuseries simply led to an arrest in a chilly case — how did that occur?
“After all it was going to be complicated to individuals. No one was going to grasp,” Jarecki tells The Hollywood Reporter when delving even additional into the timeline of occasions that will in the end result in Durst’s arrest. “Individuals had been asking, when did you give this proof to the police?” I feel individuals had been assuming that there was some plot the place we had sat on the proof with the intention to make this present an even bigger deal.”
As Half Two makes clear with a title card, The Jinx filmmakers first handed over proof in 2013, which might result in L.A. District Lawyer John Lewin reopening the chilly case investigation into Berman’s homicide. Jarecki and govt producer Zac Stuart-Pontier lately defined of their Official Jinx Podcast for HBO how when, two years after they filmed it, they uncovered Durst’s audio confession of their enhancing course of and handed it over for the investigation.
What Jarecki and Stuart-Pontier element under is that, as soon as they handed over that last piece of proof — earlier than The Jinx even premiered — they grew to become witnesses and had been suggested to not communicate with the press with the intention to preserve their credibility within the case. Now, 9 years later — over which era Durst was convicted for the first-degree homicide of Berman and later indicted on the cost of second-degree homicide in first spouse Kathie’s killing, earlier than his demise in 2022 — they’re prepared to speak.
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I’m in a Jinx rabbit gap after revisiting the timeline of Robert Durst’s arrest and the Half One finale (which aired in March 15, 2015) now that I’ve seen all of it put into perspective with the behind-the-scenes revelations within the first episode of The Jinx — Half Two.
ANDREW JARECKI How would you are feeling about [a rabbit hole for] 21 years?
Properly, how does it really feel to launch the second half of this Robert Durst story after 21 years?
JARECKI It’s actually weird and shocking that we’ve been at it for this lengthy. It was not one thing that we’ve deliberate, but it surely actually has been an unimaginable reward to have the ability to go this deeply right into a story. Not solely does the story hold shifting — and are there so many massive human questions that it calls into play — however this entire Half Two is basically about one thing totally different for us. Clearly, Bob is centered in it. However Zac [Stuart-Pontier] and I used to say, “How do you kill three individuals over 30 years and get away with it? It takes a village.” So, who’re these individuals? Who is that this constellation of individuals, for those who pull the digicam again, who had been there serving to Bob alongside the best way? Regular, odd, first rate individuals who see themselves as common residents are rapidly getting drawn into homicide. And never one homicide, typically three murders. That’s such an fascinating evolution, as a result of it was straightforward to say that Bob was this lone wolf, and these unhealthy issues occurred and he bought in hassle for it. However the actuality was that he had this cadre of people that, for numerous causes and who got here in at totally different instances in his life in several methods, had been in a position to take part. And with out these individuals, I don’t assume he would have been in a position to do what he did.
Zac and I are getting very contemplative now. We’re seeing the tip of this in sight and we’re getting just a little nostalgic, and I used to be saying to him, “What are the largest variations between Half One and Half Two?” And Zac mentioned, “Half One was retrospective the place these had been horrible occasions that occurred previously. Half Two is occurring when you are watching it. It’s motion that’s taking place within the current.” And the second factor is that, lots of people in Half One wished to take part. Bob Durst volunteered to be interviewed. And a whole lot of his pals wished to be there and assist him and say good issues about him, and different individuals wished to make their factors and say how annoyed they had been by him. Individuals actually had a need to be in it. And folks don’t wish to be in Half Two.
Your cameras by no means stopped rolling. So that you had a time interval the place you had captured footage earlier than The Jinx exploded to turn out to be a true-crime phenomenon.
ZAC STUART-PONTIER When making Half One, we had been by no means actually positive the place Half One was going to finish. Andrew was already in contact with [L.A. County Deputy District Attorney] John Lewin. We had been filming a few of that as that relationship was progressing, like talking for the primary time. And there was some discuss together with a few of that in Half One. Clearly, that didn’t occur. We ended Half One with Bob within the toilet [making his confession]. However whereas we had been making Half Two, a lot of what we filmed for Half One was related on this new and thrilling means. That was one in every of my favourite issues about making this season. There was this going again over of all of the stuff when making Half One that was rapidly extraordinarily related once more.
I can’t recall how quickly after The Jinx finale launched that you simply made it public that you simply had really found Durst’s toilet audio confession two years after you filmed it. Are you able to return to whenever you first made that recognized?
JARECKI Once we first talked about it? It was truncated. As a result of on the time, when individuals had been asking, “when did you give this proof to the police?”, I feel individuals had been assuming that there was some plot the place we had sat on the proof with the intention to make this present an even bigger deal. However individuals didn’t perceive that we had reached out to the police a few years earlier than the present got here out. [Note: Part Two notes that they first handed over evidence in 2013.] It’s simply that the typical particular person thinks, “Properly, if in case you have proof of a homicide, after all the police will exit and arrest the man.” And we thought that, too.
After which after we met with John Lewin [who appears in Part Two], he mentioned, “Simply to let you understand, these [cold] circumstances normally take me 5 years.” We’re like, “This man has undoubtedly murdered three individuals already. It’s very doable he’ll do it once more. It’s doable I’ll be one in every of them.” And he mentioned, “Properly, the worst factor you are able to do, if you’re a district legal professional’s workplace, is convey a prosecution earlier than you’re prepared, as a result of particularly if this man has tons of of hundreds of thousands of {dollars}, he’s going to throw some huge cash at it and also you don’t wish to find yourself…”, what’s that expression, you don’t wish to wound a prince? [Lewin continued], “For those who’re going to do it, you gotta take him down.”
So, we realized rather a lot from that. However then on the time, when the present got here out, one of many causes individuals didn’t perceive that’s as a result of that very same DA had mentioned to us, “Don’t speak to the press.” I had proven [ABC News anchor] George Stephanopoulos the final two episodes early, simply because we’re pals and I knew I may belief him. We had been very frightened that if individuals within the press discovered it might leak, after which Bob would flee. And equally, I had completed the identical factor with Charlie Bagli on the New York Occasions [who appears in Part Two], as a result of I felt that we could not be capable to discuss this, so any individual needed to have the essential info proper. After which proper after that — as a result of we didn’t know Bob was going to get arrested — [Lewin] mentioned, “By the best way, now that Bob’s been arrested, we’re bringing this case and also you guys are going to be witnesses. So, don’t speak to the press.”
(Laughs) So, then we had been type of caught in that center floor the place we actually didn’t wish to harm our credibility as witnesses. We didn’t wish to mess up their case. However, after all it was going to be complicated to individuals. No one was going to grasp. No one was going to grasp that it took us two years to search out the toilet audio. It’s comprehensible why individuals would say, “Properly that sounds loopy.”
And that loo audio confession was relitigated in courtroom throughout Durst’s trial. Part of the protection’s case was the accusation that that scene was edited. Are you able to handle that, and what was it prefer to have these accusations thrown in the course of the trial?
JARECKI Two various things. First, they had been saying that we will need to have been in cahoots with the police, as a result of — if that had been the case — then they’d be capable to say that we had been brokers of legislation enforcement. And if we had been brokers of legislation enforcement, then what Bob mentioned to us needs to be thrown out, as a result of we didn’t mirandize him; we didn’t say, “By the best way, we’re type of working with the police and we’re an extension of the police.” And that’s one of many the explanation why we didn’t attain out to the police till we had completed that second interview [the one that ended the Part One finale].
We had been speaking to legal professionals and asking what one of the simplest ways was to supply the proof that the police will want. And so they mentioned, “Don’t go to the police till you confront him with the proof, as a result of there’s just one shot at doing that and for those who go to the police first, it is going to look like they’re supplying you with the questions or they’re asking you to do issues that may assist with the prosecution,” so we needed to separate ourselves there.
STUART-PONTIER And that’s what the protection did attempt to do. They did attempt to make that argument, and that was litigated. And all of the legal professionals weighed in and so they mentioned, “No, you guys weren’t brokers of legislation.” So the individuals who had been advising us that that was going to turn out to be a problem had been completely proper. That was the best recommendation to offer us.
JARECKI After which the second half was one thing that I feel individuals didn’t perceive — and even Charlie Bagli on the N.Y. Occasions didn’t perceive. They thought, “Properly, the prosecution goes to be based mostly on the The Jinx. We all know that the toilet audio is seven minutes lengthy. All you confirmed within the movie is 20 or 30 seconds of it, so clearly they’re bringing this prosecution based mostly on a movie.” However what they didn’t perceive is that we had given the complete seven minutes instantly to the district legal professional as quickly as we discovered it [two years after filming it and before The Jinx premiered].
So, it wasn’t ever based mostly on [what we showed]. We had been by no means going to have the ability to play seven minutes of loo audio within the movie, however we knew that was what we needed to do for the prosecution. And [the court] would have by no means tolerated it. They couldn’t have used the toilet audio [from the film] in courtroom after which mentioned to the jury, “Properly, we’re not going to play you the entire toilet audio.” As a result of, what if there was one thing within the toilet audio the place he mentioned, “Oh, I used to be simply kidding about that half the place I mentioned, ‘Killed all of them, after all.’” So, they would wish to have the ability to play that entire factor for the jury.
Nevertheless it was additionally one thing the place Bob’s protection was attempting to say that it was all within the enhancing: “They made Bob appear responsible.” However you understand, the man [Durst] walks into the toilet and says, “There it’s, you’re caught.” After which he says, “Killed all of them, after all.” They knew that the one argument they may make was that by some means this was all a giant Hollywood manufacturing. They even tried to make the argument that by some means HBO had labored with the Los Angeles District Lawyer’s workplace to plan the arrest to make the present extra dramatic?
Robert Durst (right here in a screenshot in ‘The Jinx — Half Two’) was arrested for Susan Berman’s homicide in New Orleans on March 14, 2015, the day earlier than ‘The Jinx’ aired its season one finale.
HBO
The timing to everybody not within the know appeared fairly exceptional — that he was arrested the day earlier than the finale when seemingly nobody besides you guys knew what was even on the tape. This primary episode now peels again on the timeline you’re getting at right here.
STUART-PONTIER Proper. It’s not true that nobody however us knew what was on the audio. The police knew. The police knew what was in The Jinx, as a result of we confirmed them — as a result of we had been attempting to be forthcoming with them. And therein is the reply to the thriller of why he was arrested on the eve of the finale, as a result of the police knew he was about to look at himself confess onscreen and so they knew he was already on the run. We didn’t know any of that.
Andrew knew that he was already on the run as a result of there was some discuss some private hazard that Andrew was in. So, he did know that for these 4 or 5 days that [Durst] was on the run. However this was not frequent data.
JARECKI It’s just a little little bit of nuance, however I feel it’s value understanding. It wasn’t a coincidence that they arrested him, proper? It’s true that it occurred on this unimaginable, bizarre, lightning-strike factor the place the present is about to come back out. Nevertheless it’s not as a result of they had been in touch with HBO. Cops don’t name HBO. Tv individuals and legislation enforcement will not be calling one another. However as a result of the cops knew that the present was popping out and so they knew what was in it, they’d deliberate to arrest him. They by no means informed us that.
We had been freaking out just a little, as a result of we didn’t perceive why they weren’t arresting him. And they’d say, “Properly, we’re simply not prepared.” However really, internally, there was just a little strife even on their aspect that we didn’t perceive on the time; the district legal professional didn’t need him arrested. John Lewin didn’t need Bob arrested at that second as a result of John, who could be very cautious about his circumstances and who desires the whole lot to be good, mentioned, “If he will get arrested, he may ask for a speedy trial. And I’m not able to strive him as a result of I haven’t been in a position to speak to all of the witnesses. I’ve talked to all of the witnesses I can speak to who will not be shut pals of Bob’s, but when I had referred to as the shut pals of Bob’s, then they’d have tipped him off after which he would have been on the run. So, I would like time.”
Within the meantime, you will have [LAPD homicide detective] George Shamlyan and the large cop from LAPD who mentioned, “I don’t actually care what the DA has to say. I do know the present is popping out and Bob has already scouted Cuba” — he had already made a visit to Cuba, he’s shifting cash round, we all know this man is gonna attempt to flee to a jurisdiction that doesn’t have reciprocity or an extradition treaty — and subsequently he mentioned, “I don’t actually care what the DA does. We’re arresting him. We’re gonna look so silly if we don’t arrest him after which he flies the coop.” So there was actually a battle between Lewin and the cops that we didn’t have any concept of till later.
However fortunately [Durst] was arrested; they had been proper. And ultimately, Lewin needed to suck it up and he was shut sufficient. Fortunately a number of different issues delayed Bob — the pot that he had with him and the gun [when he was arrested], and he ended up caught in New Orleans for some time and couldn’t go to trial. Nevertheless it was a whole lot of issues that occurred in a really brief time frame and it made sense that individuals in TV world had been like, “This doesn’t make any sense to me.” And it took some time for us to essentially perceive it, too. However we ended up attending to know these guys over time and studying about why they didn’t simply go arrest him.
And this primary episode explains how Durst, who was watching The Jinx in actual time when new episodes landed on Sundays, did go on the run due to what he noticed in episode 5 (the episode that aired earlier than the finale confession). It was putting to see Durst, after he was arrested, inform the police he couldn’t reply himself why he spoke to you for The Jinx, and he additionally shares that he was excessive on methamphetamine for the interviews he did with you.
JARECKI “Shares”? Or “invents” the concept?
STUART-PONTIER “Claims” is the phrase I used to be pondering.
JARECKI He’s floating a take a look at balloon, proper? He doesn’t know John Lewin but. He doesn’t know that John Lewin doesn’t undergo bullshit. So he thought, “Let me strive some stuff. Let me throw out, ‘Oh, I used to be on meth.’” After which John is like, “That factor you simply informed me, I feel is bullshit.” After which Bob has to retreat and be like, “Alright I might need to maintain negotiating with this man,” and says, “Properly, I’m not saying the solutions I gave are improper, I’m simply saying that there was one thing happening with me.” And John is like, “Alright, let’s transfer on.”
Do both of you assume he was on any form of substance in these 21 hours you had been talking with him for Half One?
JARECKI No.
STUART-PONTIER He likes to smoke weed. It’s not unattainable that he took a success on his means over. He’s a wake-and-bake type of man. So, is it doable that early on he was stoned? Somewhat. Possibly. However the man spends his entire life stoned, so I don’t know the way a lot that affected him. Past that, I feel we’d have recognized. He was completely with it. He was getting up, he was shifting round. He was interacting with individuals. He’s a weirdo, however I don’t imagine he was on medication.
Later, in recorded jail calls on this first episode, Durst finally ends up saying that doing The Jinx was the “dumbest factor” he ever did. Charlie Bagli tells the cameras that if Durst had stored his mouth shut, he most likely would by no means have been caught Why do you assume he spoke to you?
JARECKI I feel it was a variety of various things, and a few of them had been extra pedestrian than others. Considered one of them is that he doesn’t have rather a lot to do. He’s loaded [with money]. He wanders the world and has numerous locations that he would keep; he would go to Galveston or he would go to his place in Northern California; he had a spot in Florida for some time and a spot in New York. He was type of the idle wealthy, and I feel he bought bored. And I feel he cherished the stimulation of being within the press. And that dovetails with one other factor, which is that he hates his brother a lot, and he hates his household a lot, that he would do something to torture them. He cherished the truth that [his brother] Douglas Durst, who’s the chairmen of The Durst Group — Bob was the eldest son and he was handed over as head of The Durst Group in favor of his youthful brother, who he couldn’t stand — and so his youthful brother would work extremely exhausting to construct some new constructing, and so they must beg the native press to put in writing just a little blurb about it. As a result of, it’s not that fascinating when a constructing goes up in Manhattan. Then Bob would present up, stand in entrance of Zabar’s, somebody would snap a photograph of him and he would find yourself on the entrance web page of the New York Submit with a headline, “He’s Again!” He cherished the truth that he may draw the eye to himself. It was very enjoyable for him. The one factor worse than being talked about shouldn’t be being talked about.
I additionally assume that there have been some deeper causes. He actually felt that he was being handled unfairly. I feel for those who had requested him what he meant by that, he would say, “Properly, I utilized to get into this co-op, they wouldn’t let me in. I’ve by no means been convicted of homicide. That’s not truthful to me.” Although in his thoughts he knew he had killed these three individuals, he felt maligned. He felt by some means like he wasn’t being handled pretty, given the truth that, underneath the letter of the legislation, he wasn’t really a assassin. You possibly can say to him, “Properly Bob, you may perceive that if you’re residing in your good Manhattan co-op, you won’t wish to step out to get the newspaper and look throughout and see a man who dismembered any individual.” [Durst was acquitted for the 2001 murder of his neighbor Morris Black, whom Durst admitted to dismembering, claiming he killed Black in self-defense.] So, he by no means completely understood that. He felt that was a technicality, and that he was technically harmless.
After which the deepest factor of all is that I do imagine that he had a compulsion to admit. Even when Bob had much less conscience than different individuals, I feel he knew that he had killed the individuals who cherished him. His first spouse [Kathleen McCormack Durst] was an unimaginable particular person. She actually cherished him and thought she may make him higher. She noticed all the issues in him, and thought she might be the lacking piece and repair him. And I feel he missed that. I feel he at all times felt responsible that he had killed her. And that’s one of many the explanation why the minute I completed exhibiting him the 2 items of handwriting and he can’t inform the distinction [in the Part One finale] and two minutes later he will get up and goes to the toilet, he doesn’t even get the door closed earlier than he says, “There it’s, you’re caught.” I really feel like, in the course of the interview, he was thisclose to simply eager to blurt it out. So I feel that was a part of it additionally.
I’m interested by your correspondence with him for Half Two. I’ve seen the primary 4 episodes, however press didn’t obtain screeners for the ultimate two episodes. Do you communicate to him instantly right here, are you able to say?
JARECKI I feel possibly we’ll go away the final episodes to their very own gadgets.
The Jinx — Half Two releases new episodes 10 p.m. Sundays on HBO and Max. Learn Jarecki and Stuart-Pontier explaining how they stumbled on Durst’s toilet confession two years after filming and verify again in with THR as Half Two unfolds for extra from the filmmakers.